An exclusive interview with Mohd Tahir Khan Hazara, a political thinker
Interviewed by Comrade Noushad
(Blv stands for Bolan Voice whilst the MTK for Mohammd Tahir Khan Hazara)
MTK: My name is Mohammad Tahir Khan and I was born in Quetta. It is Sandmen High School from where I got my education till matriculation level. At subsequent juncture of my life, I had been in Pakistan national party with Late Mir Ghous Buksh Bizenjo. I was the chairman of Hazara Progressive Forum and being chairman of Hazara Political worker frankly speaking. Provided the aforementioned short biography of mine, without them, it is possible that I can’t be identified otherwise. In addition to that, I am a political worker currently. When I was working with the Pakistan Peoples’ Party (PPP) for a short period of time, they honored me as the provincial information secretary, but when she (Benazir Bhutto) entered into deal with General Parvez Musharraf, so on ideological basis I found it somewhat different, consequently, I made myself apart from that political party.
Blv: Provided your own life-long political experience, what is ‘politics’ in true meaning that you want the present youth to know?
MTK: Well, ‘politics’ is a vast comprehensive subject. Provided the fact that whatever human beings collectively do, as they are called social animals, in order to transform and better the society or to pave a beaten road for society’s vehicle of development. Whatever human beings do, if we call it national politics it would not certainly be wrong. Hence, politics has a lot to do with the improvement of one’s state and the regime of government, improving and working on the aforementioned fields is called politics in its substantive scope and obviously, it is all concerned with relativism of ideologies. When we name it ‘politics’, so it has some relation with the history, philosophy, geography and psychology. In other words, the assembling of all other knowledge is called politics. I believe, if you particularly define ‘politics’ so it will remain incomplete.
Blv: There are two kinds of democracy; first one is capitalistic and second one is social democracy, how do you elaborate feature of both?
Ans: These two terms have been derived date back to the revolution of 1917. After the revolution with each other the imperialist powers fought great wars, especially, during World War-I & World War-II. So in this gruesome race when the colonialism system was eradicated, new systems replaced the old ones. If you ideologically classify the politics, so these are two kinds formed by Latin philosophers. Besides, I have never seen any political book in my entire life which mentions socialism as wrong a theory. Arguably, till the day today many people highly believe in it as working and alive system to be applied. On the other hand, in my opinion, only two kinds of nation possess the actual form of ‘politics’. 1) a nation which has the authority and administration, 2) a nation which has the power and capital. And another also exists, that is dependent and is living a degraded life. Furthermore, there is no secreting the reality that Capitalism is a victim of downfall. Actually the system of capitalism has never resolved any problem, but it created and posed many new problems for human beings. As we can see, killing and bloodshed, injustice and corruption, brutal barbarism of any state, these all is owing to the system of capitalism. Shortly defining, social politics/democracy deals with the GSS theory, viz Gender, State and Society and capital way of politics whereas deals with the municipality enjoying primary status in a state, country, province, or other region as its seat of government. Before you ask me another question, I would like to tell you two forms of nations; one is who is in authority which exploits the all resources, and the other is the deprived one. We certainly know that the deprived ones here in Balochistan are the Baloch, Saraiki, Sindhi and other minorities. The one which is in authority doesn’t need to be mentioned, for everyone knows which nation it is. In a nutshell, the system of capitalism has always been posing numerous problems for the minorities in our country and the elite enjoy this system.
Blv: At this current juncture of our lives, as we see different facets of ‘State’s politics’. Is State for the benefit of its people?
MTK: State is an institution of providing security to the only elite classes in our country. It is their working slave in true drift and State is the protector of those who exploit and brutalize on other minorities. And I am talking in terms of not only national viewpoint but international. Today’s state has fallen a victim of failure. For instance, if there is a case which can be resolved within one hour but in that country if it takes more than 10 or 20 years to solve that case so it is state’s failure. If you take the same case to a Jirga, the case will be held and solved within hours. So this type of State is not for the benefit of its peoples, epically for the ones underprivileged and impoverished.
Blv: You are right, but there are States that are actually for the benefits of its people regardless of their social status, like State of Holland, New Zealand, Switzerland and likewise. How do you view this?
MTK: If we sit and pass on our judgment, or if we decide to make a State, so you are well-aware that peoples’ part is there too. People are also to be included to participate in, every person thus is to be included, and then you can call it ‘State. As you mentioned Canada, New Zealand, over all in those States the will of its people is the top priority to be included first. For example, if we talk about our Pakistani State, so if it lives up to the fulfillment of the role of both Mother and Father, if it brings all its people in confidence and harmony to listen to their complaints willingly, those legal demands of its people if it confirms to, so what complaints would we have for? Would there be any complaints left to on the table? No, certainly not. If today there is any complaint of its masses, so owning to the lack of diplomacy. Here once the British had ruled, too; what they did is respected the Baloch nation after reading the psychology and resultantly said in the same manner that “respect them, i.e. The entire Baloch nation” because all the Baloch wanted was the respect and identity as a nation at that time, the same today they want.
Blv: So, how do you see the current phase of politics in Pakistan?
MTK: Well, (current elite classes are fighting with each other, nothing else). Current phase of politics in Pakistan is, for the time being as we see, being driven by Imran Khan and Tahir-ul-Qadri, They both are two powers with their own decisiveness and difference of thoughts and political ideologies. And in the long run, in our country the politics has got such a tumultuous existential shape that every man of this country looks at it with suspicion, thus every political event, anything related to politics is held in mistrust and they only try to draw the means from such politics.
Blv: Sir, let us know about the historical record of Hazara in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan?
MTK: The Britain working in their reign as occupiers and they knew that there would come a point of revolution in Soviet Union and it would be huge. The golden Sparrow was in the subjugation of Britain. Then they made Afghanistan a buffer State, for their vast interests they brought in Ameer Abdul Rehman in Afghanistan. He was a Pushtoon hailing from Mohammadzai family, so he worked as zombie at the hands of them. And then the Hazaras went into a battle with him, in fact, Hazaras were made to battle against him. The Hazaras were defeated in 1893-98. Some of them migrated to Iran, and some came and got inhabited themselves in Quetta. Then the British saw that they become as unconscious, didn’t know anything. So, when Pakistan was made, people residing there thought it as a land of opportunity. And the Hazaras whom backed down, saw and asked in amazement, ‘what is this happening’? Then thought General Musa, as a king. So, for a long period of time our people thought that he was a king, and else whatever was being done was just against our King. So they stayed here in the country.
Blv: As you see, so far the parliamentary politics is concerned, approximately, remains unsuccessful, mere a few people come in parliament, and they give incentives, after that they’ll take their leave; the masses’ condition happens to remain the same as usual, why is this so and do you agree with this?
MTK: Fella, you see there is no election. Let me tell you since Pakistan has made, in 1970 for the first time elections were held, they didn’t know how to gain their vast interests by dint of election. It was the first election that they lost the East-Pakistan. One thing is very much assured that in Pakistan elections can never fair, the reason behind this is that, it is the rule of the democratic elite class behind this.
Blv: How do you see the current movement in Balochistan?
MTK: It is obvious, the State is backed by America, and the State which is the hand of the imperialist America, and these are not concealed talks on them. The State which has always been a utilizer of the tactics of an imperialist power, so today you can’t defeat the imperialist powers. You can’t impose your demands because behind Pakistani State are the imperialist powers backing. And the imperialist powers with the will are acquiring their interests, and various goals. So, there is no point of question that from outside or internationally you would get help and it is marked that in fights or actual battles the powerful powers benefit predominantly. We can remember the rendered sacrifices of Tamil Tigers in Siri-Lanka, but state’s power defeated them and provided the fact that Siri Lanka is not the center of the interests of the international imperialist powers. And when it comes to Baluchistan, so, it is the center for the imperialist international powers.
Blv: In these above-mentioned circumstances, can one abide the injustice and make their heads down to gloss them over to confirm to the foisted picture of their lives?
MTK: No, obviously not. There should not be any bearing of brutalities. Let me tell you, Okay, it is fine if some people want to get their rights by fighting, so it is their own ideology and thought. But I say that, today the said talks of Mir Ghous Baksh Bizenjo are being proved as true. You see there might be only a few houses in Balochistan who are included among the elite class; our most of the social class belongs to the deprived one. So, we should assemble the deprived people of Sindh, of Khyber Pakhtunkwa, and that of the deprived Siraiki denomination with us. The national aim should be mixed with the aim of the every deprived class and here we can collectively struggle and our, the masses’, power can be twice enhanced than the State’s. Let me tell you, if you say that we by dint of force, so my personal viewpoint is that ‘why’? I read somewhere in American report of their think-tanks that put it so “in our battles and fights, there won’t be our physical participation because we know that Dollar is much more powerful than anything”. They are resorting to non-physical participation of their soldiers in order to keep secure their strength.
Blv: We live in Baloch-istan and certainly this is the biggest motive that we are talking about it and as you see, there are separatist organizations actively fighting, so whatever they conduct, they say that they are doing these just for a Baloch liberal society, and for a Socialist society. Armed struggle itself is a political struggle, right? So, why are not the deprived classes in that society joining the struggle?
MTK: Before the system of colonialism, the imperialist powers were into the politics of barbaric occupation. In this long process of occupation, there took place two great wars, and the imperialist powers fought with each other brutal battles. I think, in the human history, these two wars are most bloody and astonishing ones viz World War-I & World War-II, a lot of people were killed. But after World war, they said ‘come together we extort and exploit’. Then they got united, they created International Monetary Fund (IMF), United Nations’ Organization (UNO) World Bank, these all were created for their own interests to economically make other nations slave. Today there are many third world countries; can we call them independent countries? No, obviously not. I believe they are locked in a huge imperialist jail, so in the jail there happens to be the process of work too. To name a few, there are factories in some jails, so, one big Jail is named as ‘Pakistan’, another Saudi, Iraq, and Afghanistan. There imperialist powers made such mentioned jails under the jurisprudence of modern imperialism. However, if you say that they want to create a socialist State, it is a fact that one socialist State has been made to back down by the America, which was super power. When 1917’s revolution took place, who defeated the Soviet Union, who disintegrated it. The complete Europe and America, these all together on every level engulfed the Soviet Union, and it is obvious that they also made many mistakes, some of which they themselves have made clear. If the Soviet Union was competing, so in this disintegrated society, which is not an organized one, which has been a victim of barbarism for more than 68 years. Where state’s sponsored people have been brutal on other lesser class, so I think, by war it can’t be won. In addition to that, here in our state when they said that it would be an Islamic state and there are no nationalities but one nation. The peoples’ history, their psychology, everything was neglected just by saying that we all are Muslim, we are but what about the people of East-Pakistan at that time?
Blv: Why doesn’t this society change, for betterment?
MTK: Who is trying to change or transform the current shape of the society for a rosy betterment socio-politically? No, one. You see, if you imprison me, after all, when I get released, I will resist the same thing, so this is the nature of human beings. If your behavior toward me is kind, then I will respond to it kindly. What I mean is that ‘Every action has a re-action’, so for changing the society’s current socio-politically confused framework, painstaking endeavors should come to the fore, and talks won’t certainly work wonder without given pragmatism for a change as it is said that ‘actions speak louder than the words’. If you realize that you are the actual owner of this land, when you sit down with me deciding that ‘this is yours and this is mine’ so this type of diplomacy makes us mature enough to work willingly and collectively on political basis for the betterment of that State as per individual responsibility.